This new genealogists all contemplate it extreme one to Nicholas’ partner Clementia was integrated right here since, significantly less than typical items, she would not be said. Whenever Susanna on particular later on day got out to a different guardian, brand new partner of that protector was not stated.

This should signify Queen John spent some time there and you will the possibility of an amorous liaison having Clementia is available

Here are some here is a theory state-of-the-art from the certain eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to declare that the new findings try hotly contested!

That it principle results in a great and you may interested ‘twist’ throughout the facts from Joanna, that may appeal admirers out-of HBD!

On the surface, there is absolutely nothing to highly recommend people partnership between your hostage, Susanna from Wales and you may Clementia, wife out-of Nicholas de Verdun. Yet not, the feel of certain genealogists having overseas hostages, like young ones, could have been which they were have a tendency to place with friends, or no were readily available.

Jumping forward to 1236, discover an admission regarding Tewkesbury annals and that applies to Joanna’s mommy due to the fact “Queen Clemencie!” They reads in part:

Now, we know your mommy from Joanna was entitled Clementia (Clemence?

In cases like this the fresh new monk try plainly indulging from inside the medieval legalism. In advance of their particular dying, Joanna had been legitimised because of the Pope. On such basis as you to legitimisation, the fresh new Tewksbury monk evidently grabbed it through to themselves to elevate Joanna’s mom for the position from Queen, because if their unique mommy was King John’s wife! It this link is true however, one to Queen John and you can Clementia have been never ever married. By discussing Joanna’s mommy since the “Queen” Clementia, the new monk who recorded Joanna’s death are appearing their significant regard for Joanna, however attempting to alter the true factors.

When it comes to identity out of Clementia de Verdun, Paget implies that she are new child from Roger de Dauntsey, away from Wiltshire. That genealogist takes into account it significant you to definitely Clementia hailed away from Wiltshire just like the he’s noticed that Queen John had a powerful connection to you to definitely condition, it as being the household regarding his safest allies, the latest Longespee, ilies and you may Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists have discovered that identity ‘Clementia’ is actually very uncommon certainly one of English noblewomen of several months. In one table out-of women’s labels which was obtained, there had been just two situations of label “Clementia” regarding a maximum of 1407 women in new attempt! The point that anybody named Clementia will be for the Susanna is tall.

Thus! The data is actually effective, not conclusive, one into the 1228, Susanna, while the a good hostage, gotten out over brand new care of their unique maternal grandma, now wife out of Nicholas de Verdun!!

This new Scottish genealogists of MacDuffs’ hold you to definitely Susanna ferch Llywelyn was born 1214 during the Gwynnedd, Wales and you will passed away c. 1259 from inside the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl from Fife from inside the 1230 and had a few youngsters: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, born 1245, passed away 1270 and you will MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.

Without a doubt, there are avoid arguments to all so it supposition! King John got of numerous mistresses and possibly as much as seven illegitimate children. The mother out-of Joanna would-have-been produced circa 1172 and marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was created circa 1191 (fourteen yrs . old during their unique wedding to help you Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh new recognized legitimate child from Nicholas de Verdun with his spouse Clementia came to be circa 1210-1213. If Clementia is the mother off Joanna, she’d can be found in their later 30’s, very early 40’s whenever pregnancy to Rohese! Perhaps not impossible, specific say, however, improbable.